Subject: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:05:13 -0400 From: Logan Ferree Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if "Before the flag of the United States of America, I freely pledge allegiance to that nation's Constitution and to the republic founded thereon, one democracy, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation of many peoples, cultures, languages, and colors under God, indivisible, with respect, liberty, and justice for all." "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe." Any thoughts on other ones? These are real ones from OTL. Ideas on how to get them adopted? Logan Ferree Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:21:24 -0400 From: "Robert J. Kolker" Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 Logan Ferree wrote: > "Before the flag of the United States of America, I freely pledge > allegiance to that nation's Constitution and to the republic founded > thereon, one democracy, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice > for all." > > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, > and to the republic for which it stands, one nation of many peoples, > cultures, languages, and colors under God, indivisible, with respect, > liberty, and justice for all." > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for > whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming > again, with life and liberty for all who believe." > > Any thoughts on other ones? These are real ones from OTL. Ideas on > how to get them adopted? How about none of the above. When the Republic was founded, no pledge of allegiance was required. No national anthem existed. No loyalty oaths were required. Bob Kolker Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:44:36 GMT From: NM Reply-To: afeno@spamusa.net Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 I believe the Oath of office for the presidency existed as well as that for naturalization. NM I agree with you however. "Robert J. Kolker" wrote: > > Logan Ferree wrote: > > > "Before the flag of the United States of America, I freely pledge > > allegiance to that nation's Constitution and to the republic founded > > thereon, one democracy, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice > > for all." > > > > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, > > and to the republic for which it stands, one nation of many peoples, > > cultures, languages, and colors under God, indivisible, with respect, > > liberty, and justice for all." > > > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for > > whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming > > again, with life and liberty for all who believe." > > > > Any thoughts on other ones? These are real ones from OTL. Ideas on > > how to get them adopted? > > How about none of the above. > > When the Republic was founded, no pledge of > allegiance was required. No national anthem > existed. No loyalty oaths were required. > > Bob Kolker Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:54:00 -0400 From: "Robert J. Kolker" Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 , 3 NM wrote: > I believe the Oath of office for the presidency existed as well as that > for naturalization. For the president the oath was to support and defend the Constitution, which is the job of president. For the naturalized citizen the oath was to obey the laws. No loyalty to a FLAG was required (what a peices of idolatrous twaddle that was). Flag worshipping is about is sensible as bowing down to stone statues. Bob Kolker Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: 25 Apr 2001 16:07:55 GMT From: mwstone@aol.com (mike stone) Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 >From: "Robert J. Kolker" bobkolker@mediaone.net >Flag worshipping is about is sensible as bowing down to stone >statues. > It is also the precise equivalent of what early Christians got martyred for refusing to do - burning incense to Caesar -- Mike Stone - Peterborough England "The English people are like the English beer. Froth on top, dregs at the bottom, the middle excellent" - Voltaire Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:54:59 -0500 From: weaire gavin allen Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 On 25 Apr 2001, mike stone wrote: > >From: "Robert J. Kolker" bobkolker@mediaone.net > > >Flag worshipping is about is sensible as bowing down to stone > >statues. > > > > It is also the precise equivalent of what early Christians got martyred for > refusing to do - burning incense to Caesar Interestingly, after Constantine, the Christians had absolutely no problems with _adoratio_ of the imperial image. They just decided that it didn't count as "worship." Gavin Weaire. Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: 25 Apr 2001 19:25:14 GMT From: dtenner@ameritech.net (David Tenner) Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 Robert J. Kolker wrote in <3AE6B334.878433E5@mediaone.net>: > >When the Republic was founded, no pledge of >allegiance was required. No national anthem >existed. No loyalty oaths were required. > But the Declaration of Independence may itself have been intended as a sort of loyalty oath: "One explanation, given by Thomas McKean, a member of Congress from Pennsylvania who had been present on July 4, was that the purpose of the Declaration as finally signed was to provide a kind of public loyalty-oath, a pledge of allegiance to the course already taken. Or (as he put it), 'to prevent traitors or spies from worming themselves among us.' It seems to have been decided for security's sake that 'no person should have a seat in Congress during that year until he should have signed the declaration of indepndence.' If this was the case, the declaration was as much a loyalty- oath as a declaration of principles. And it was, then, one of the first, and surely the best known and best reputed (as well as most misunderstood) of the long line of Americans' efforts to reassure themselves by public oaths of loyalty." Daniel Boorstin, *The Americans: The National Experience (New York: Vintage Books 1965), p. 379 There was however no oath of allegiance to the flag AFAIK. In fact there was no true national flag. Congress did specify in 1777 that the flag should have thirteeen stripes, alternate red and white and thirteen stars "white in a blue field, representing a new constellation" but this was so vague that all sorts of variations remained possible. According to Boorstin (p. 374): "There was still widespread uncertainty, even in the army, as to what the national flag really was, and when and how it should be displayed. Americans actually fought the Revolution under local banners showing a variety of devices--rattlesnakes, pine and palmetto trees, eagles, symbolic chains, anchors and mottoes such as 'Don't Tread on Me,' 'An Appeal to Heaven,' 'We are One," and 'Vince aut Morire'--but not under any authentic national flag." The Star Spangled Banner btw did not generally appear in school songbooks until the 1850's, and not until the 1890's did Army and Navy regulations specify that it be played on ceremonial occasions. Congress did not officially make it the national anthem until 1931. -- David Tenner dtenner@ameritech.net Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: 25 Apr 2001 14:27:31 GMT From: mwstone@aol.com (mike stone) Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 >From: Logan Ferree lhferree@roanoke.infi.net > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for >whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming >again, with life and liberty for all who believe." No quarrel with the sentiments, but what on earth (or anywhere else) is "The Christ Flag"? Istr that Catholic churches sometimes fly the Vatican flag, but I didn't think non-RCs had any particular religious flag. Certainly Latter-day Saints don't, unless the State flaf of Utah be so regarded -- Mike Stone - Peterborough England "The English people are like the English beer. Froth on top, dregs at the bottom, the middle excellent" - Voltaire Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:23:24 -0400 From: "SP Cook" Organization: Prodigy http://www.prodigy.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 mike stone wrote in message > > > > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for > >whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming > >again, with life and liberty for all who believe." > > No quarrel with the sentiments, but what on earth (or anywhere else) is "The > Christ Flag"? > > Istr that Catholic churches sometimes fly the Vatican flag, but I didn't think > non-RCs had any particular religious flag. Certainly Latter-day Saints don't, > unless the State flaf of Utah be so regarded Many American evangelical protestant denominations use a flag that consists of a white blag with a blue union (the upper inside part) with a red cross on the blue. That is the one to which the pledge that started the thread was written for. Of course, the Episcopal church has a flag that is English in origin, featuring St. Andrew's and St. George's crosses. Catholics use the Vatican national flag. Jews use the Israeli national flag. Many mainline denominations have flags, often the church seal on a background, like many US state flags. The Worldwide Church of God (which believes in British Israelism) has one that features three globe and several English symbols. Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:35:28 -0400 From: Logan Ferree Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 mike stone wrote: > >From: Logan Ferree lhferree@roanoke.infi.net > > > > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for > >whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming > >again, with life and liberty for all who believe." > > No quarrel with the sentiments, but what on earth (or anywhere else) is "The > Christ Flag"? Well, first I forgot to look over what I typed. I meant to type the CHRISTIAN Flag, sorry about that. It was a pledge of allegiance that used in January 1994 at a conference of the religious right in Fort Lauderdale about "Reclaiming America." I do believe they used the American flag. Dan Quayle was one of the more famous people attending. > Istr that Catholic churches sometimes fly the Vatican flag, but I didn't think > non-RCs had any particular religious flag. Certainly Latter-day Saints don't, > unless the State flaf of Utah be so regarded. Logan Ferree Subject: The Christian Flag (was: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance) Date: 25 Apr 2001 15:30:08 GMT From: dtenner@ameritech.net (David Tenner) Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 mike stone wrote in <20010425102731.21091.00001001@ng -fs1.aol.com>: >>From: Logan Ferree lhferree@roanoke.infi.net > >> >> "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for >>whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming >>again, with life and liberty for all who believe." > >No quarrel with the sentiments, but what on earth (or anywhere else) is >"The Christ Flag"? > >Istr that Catholic churches sometimes fly the Vatican flag, but I >didn't think non-RCs had any particular religious flag. Certainly Latter >-day Saints don't, unless the State flaf of Utah be so regarded According to my old World Book Encyclopedia, the "Christian flag" has been used as an emblem by Protestant churches since 1897. "Its upper inside corner is deep blue with a red Christian cross. The rest of ther flag is white...Catholic churches use the papal flag in a similar way. "There are several versions of the pledge of allegience to the Christian flag. One of them is 'I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands; one brotherhood, uniting all mankind in service and in love.'" I have also seen the version posted by Logan on several web sites. For images of the Christian Flag and discussion, see http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/christia.html (which also links to:) http://www.steve4u.com/christian/main.htm -- David Tenner dtenner@ameritech.net Subject: Re: The Christian Flag (was: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance) Date: 03 May 2001 01:23:17 GMT From: tagehring@aol.com (Tommy Gehring) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 >Subject: The Christian Flag (was: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance) >From: dtenner@ameritech.net (David Tenner) >Date: 25-04-01 11:30 A Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <908E6B4BBdtennerameritechnet@news.mindspring.com> > >mike stone wrote in <20010425102731.21091.00001001@ng >-fs1.aol.com>: > >>>From: Logan Ferree lhferree@roanoke.infi.net >> >>> >>> "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for >>>whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming >>>again, with life and liberty for all who believe." >> >>No quarrel with the sentiments, but what on earth (or anywhere else) is >>"The Christ Flag"? >> >>Istr that Catholic churches sometimes fly the Vatican flag, but I >>didn't think non-RCs had any particular religious flag. Certainly Latter >>-day Saints don't, unless the State flaf of Utah be so regarded > >According to my old World Book Encyclopedia, the "Christian flag" has >been used as an emblem by Protestant churches since 1897. "Its upper >inside corner is deep blue with a red Christian cross. The rest of ther >flag is white...Catholic churches use the papal flag in a similar way. > >"There are several versions of the pledge of allegience to the Christian >flag. One of them is 'I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to >the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands; one brotherhood, uniting all >mankind in service and in love.'" I have also seen the version posted by >Logan on several web sites. Also, various protestant churches in the US (at least), have their own version of the flag mentioned above. FREX, the Episcopal flag, iirc, has a device on the blue field with a cross of crosses. Other denominations have smiliar devices. === "Nothing promotes discussion and dialogue better than a naked woman in a cage." - Kristie Phelps, PETA Tommy Gehring Richmond, Virginia http://www.geocities.com/ta_gehring/index.html Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:34:46 GMT From: Stephen Lazer Organization: @Home Network Member Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 Logan Ferree wrote: > > "Before the flag of the United States of America, I freely pledge > allegiance to that nation's Constitution and to the republic founded > thereon, one democracy, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice > for all." > > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, > and to the republic for which it stands, one nation of many peoples, > cultures, languages, and colors under God, indivisible, with respect, > liberty, and justice for all." > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for > whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming > again, with life and liberty for all who believe." > > Any thoughts on other ones? These are real ones from OTL. Ideas on > how to get them adopted? When and under what conditions were each of these proposed? How close were they to being adopted? Especially that last one.... -- Now if a man tried to take his time on Earth and proved before he died what one man's life could be worth, I wonder what would happen to this world - Harry Chapin ecky ecky ecky ecky pi'kang zoop boing - Monty Python Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:47:02 -0400 From: Logan Ferree Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 Stephen Lazer wrote: > Logan Ferree wrote: > > > > "Before the flag of the United States of America, I freely pledge > > allegiance to that nation's Constitution and to the republic founded > > thereon, one democracy, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice > > for all." Proposed by a citizen of Susquehanna, PA. Not many people like it though. It presents a more Democratic Uniservalist concept of America. We are united because of things like the Constitution and being US citizens. That sort of thing. To be American is to believe in a particular political idology. > > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, > > and to the republic for which it stands, one nation of many peoples, > > cultures, languages, and colors under God, indivisible, with respect, > > liberty, and justice for all." Pledge of allegiance proposed by the Ethnic/Racial forum in 1976 in Boston, organized by the Bicentennial Ethnic Racial Coalition. Culturual Puralism, meaning that America isn't a melting pot, but a tossed salad. A nation of nations. Rather similar to Democratic Universalism, but includes the idea that while we are united by Democracy, we are in fact a multitude of different ethnic nations. > > "I pledge allegiance to the Christ Flag, and to the Saviour, for > > whose Kingdom it stands, one Saviour, crucified, risen, and coming > > again, with life and liberty for all who believe." Pledge from the "Reclaiming America" conference of the religious right in Fort Lauderdale, in 1994. The classic Nativism, although it has now grown to include Catholics. America is a Pan-Christian nation, etc. etc. Still has hints of black-baiting and Jew-baiting from the old nativism, but now tries to focus on the culture war with the left, and more gay-baiting. > When and under what conditions were each of these proposed? How close > were they to being adopted? Especially that last one.... Logan Ferree Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:28:23 -0400 From: "SP Cook" Organization: Prodigy http://www.prodigy.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 , 3 Logan Ferree wrote in message ... > Stephen Lazer wrote: > > > Logan Ferree wrote: > > > > > > "Before the flag of the United States of America, I freely pledge > > > allegiance to that nation's Constitution and to the republic founded > > > thereon, one democracy, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice > > > for all." > > Proposed by a citizen of Susquehanna, PA. Not many people like it > though. It presents a more Democratic Uniservalist concept of America. We > are united because of things like the Constitution and being US citizens. > That sort of thing. To be American is to believe in a particular political > idology. > This was a proposed alternate that comes out of the Supreme Court's flag salute cases. During W.W.II, the state of West Virginia (and several others) made flag pledges mandatory in public schools and charged a Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. JW cultists do not participate in the flag salute because they say it is "idolatry". The USSC upheld the law and WV and other started enforcing it strictly. This caused trouble and a new case was brought up only 18 months later. The USSC reversed itself, saying it was wrong. The quickest reversal of president by that Court, and the only one that has ever occurred without a change of any of the nine justices. Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 21:17:19 -0400 From: James D Thompson Organization: I Realize these Views are Unpopular, but I've Never been One to Court Popularity Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 SP Cook wrote: > This was a proposed alternate that comes out of the Supreme Court's > flag salute cases. During W.W.II, the state of West Virginia (and > several others) made flag pledges mandatory in public schools and > charged a Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. From the local paper, in 1931: "The State Board of Education has no authority to compel Virginia school children to salute the flag, it was announced following the monthly meeting of the board in Richmond." David Thompson -- Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowgirls, 'cuz watching big burly men ranch cattle while wearin' Sunday dresses is just plain weird. Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: 03 May 2001 01:27:35 GMT From: tagehring@aol.com (Tommy Gehring) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 >Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance >From: James D Thompson jaydeet@inna.net >Date: 27-04-01 9:17 P Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <3AEA1A1F.3681@inna.net> > >SP Cook wrote: > >> This was a proposed alternate that comes out of the Supreme Court's >> flag salute cases. During W.W.II, the state of West Virginia (and >> several others) made flag pledges mandatory in public schools and >> charged a Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. > > From the local paper, in 1931: > >"The State Board of Education has no authority to compel Virginia >school children to salute the flag, it was announced following the >monthly meeting of the board in Richmond." And yet I went through 14 years of public education in this fair state and had to stand for the flag almost every day. go figure... === "Nothing promotes discussion and dialogue better than a naked woman in a cage." - Kristie Phelps, PETA Tommy Gehring Richmond, Virginia http://www.geocities.com/ta_gehring/index.html Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 05:57:31 -0400 From: Logan Ferree Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 Tommy Gehring wrote: > >"The State Board of Education has no authority to compel Virginia > >school children to salute the flag, it was announced following the > >monthly meeting of the board in Richmond." > > And yet I went through 14 years of public education in this fair state and had > to stand for the flag almost every day. go figure... The State Board of Education may not have the authority, but the State legislature does. One of the members, the same one who passed the moment of silence law, was working on making it mandatory for all children to recite the pledge of allegiance. It didn't' work out though. Logan Ferree Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: 27 Apr 2001 00:50:00 GMT From: che49966680@aol.com (Mister Wiggins) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 >Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. JW cultists do not >participate in the flag salute because they say it is "idolatry". Stop insulting the religion of others in a public forum. Mister Wiggins. "Well Govan, If we are to die, let us die like men."- Last words of Pat Cleburne. 1864 "Hey y'all, watch this!"- Redneck's famous last words Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:51:28 -0500 From: Jason Bontrager Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 Mister Wiggins wrote: > Logan Ferree wrote in message ... > >Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. JW cultists do not > >participate in the flag salute because they say it is "idolatry". > > Stop insulting the religion of others in a public forum. Or at least be democratic about it and acknowledge that the only difference between a "cult" and a "religion" is age and size. Jason B. Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: 28 Apr 2001 06:09:56 GMT From: mwstone@aol.com (mike stone) Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 >From: Jason Bontrager jasonb@gslis.utexas.edu > wrote in message ... >> >Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. JW cultists do not >> >participate in the flag salute because they say it is "idolatry". >> >> Stop insulting the religion of others in a public forum. > >Or at least be democratic about it and acknowledge that the >only difference between a "cult" and a "religion" is age >and size. And whether you personally happen to belong or not Think "We are a Church, You are a sect, They are a cult" -- Mike Stone - Peterborough England "The English people are like the English beer. Froth on top, dregs at the bottom, the middle excellent" - Voltaire Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 06:30:19 -0400 From: "SP Cook" Organization: Prodigy http://www.prodigy.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 mike stone wrote in message > >Or at least be democratic about it and acknowledge that the > >only difference between a "cult" and a "religion" is age > >and size. > > And whether you personally happen to belong or not > > Think "We are a Church, You are a sect, They are a cult" > Sorry. I actually applied the following test: Does the denomoniation claim to be the one and only unquestionable True Church having recently reveiled knowledge and instructions from G-d, separate from that found in ancient writings, with all non-members condemned to Hell? The JWs meet this defination without question, and are thus, in my book, a cult. No offense intended. Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:57:03 +1000 From: Sydney Webb Organization: Webb Family Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 , 3 SP Cook wrote: > > mike stone wrote in message > > > >Or at least be democratic about it and acknowledge that the > > >only difference between a "cult" and a "religion" is age > > >and size. > > > > And whether you personally happen to belong or not > > > > Think "We are a Church, You are a sect, They are a cult" > > > > Sorry. I actually applied the following test: > > Does the denomoniation claim to be the one and only unquestionable True > Church having recently reveiled knowledge and instructions from G-d, > separate from that found in ancient writings, with all non-members condemned > to Hell? The JWs meet this defination without question, and are thus, in my > book, a cult. > > No offense intended. None taken. But where is the AH, save in the subject line? I think this thread has strayed into BoR territory. - Syd Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:44:37 GMT From: "Robert J. Kolker" Organization: Road Runner Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 SP Cook wrote: > Jehovah's Witness cultist parent with violation. JW cultists do not > participate in the flag salute because they say it is "idolatry". The JWs were absolutely right. Flag saluting, flag waving and flag worshipping is heathen idolatry and shame on anyone who does it. Bob Kolker Subject: Re: AH Pledges of Allegiance Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:31:08 -0500 From: Jason Bontrager Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 Logan Ferree wrote: > > > Any thoughts on other ones? These are real ones from OTL. Ideas on > how to get them adopted? > > Logan Ferree I say that if we have to have a pledge at all, we should go back to the original one. "I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". Though I'd delete the "to the flag" part and maybe substitute "to the Constitution". How to get it adopted though, I have no idea. We'd need a President or Congress (or both) that was/were willing to stand up to the religious right on the "under God" issue, and who valued the Constitution over the symbol that represents it. Not likely to happen any time soon. Jason B.