Subject: 
            AH Challenge: UK-dominated European Commonwealth
       Date: 
            14 Jul 2001 16:38:18 -0700
       From: 
            joergradd@yahoo.de (Jörg Raddatz)
Organization: 
            http://groups.google.com/
 Newsgroups: 
            soc.history.what-if


The thread "divided Europe 2001" involves among other things an EFTA
led by the UK and being one of to competing European organizations.
So let´s take this one step further:

How can we create a new "British Empire" in Europe, with the name of
European Commonwealth? The POD is after 1945, and we´ll need at least
Eire, the BeNeLux, West Germany and Italy in this group, even better
if the Scandinavian countries join, with the option of Eastern
European countries joining when the Eastern Bloc falls.
Thie ECW has to be an economic union with a common policy dominated,
but not dictated by the UK. The common institutions (Court,
Parliament, Council of Ministers) are located in London, of course,
and even if there are a lot of Monarchs in this Commonwealth there is
talk of accepting HM the Queen of the UK&NI as ceremonial "Head of
Europe", like the way the Prussian king was accepted as German Kaiser
without deposing the Kings of Bavaria, Saxony etc.
It would be very nice if the EuroCommonwealth countries had changed to
driving on the left side and using the Imperial system of measurement
instead of the metric one by 2001, hell, even the Common Currency, the
Libra, schould be divided into 20 Solidi and 240 Pence. (That´s the
way Charlemange ordered it, after all.)

Any way to make this happen without ASBs?

Jörg

Subject: 
            Re: AH Challenge: UK-dominated European Commonwealth
       Date: 
            Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:57:26 +0100
      From: 
            "Stuart Fraser" <stuart@isfraser.fsnet.co.uk>
Newsgroups: 
            soc.history.what-if
 References: 
            1


"Jörg Raddatz" <joergradd@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:e4c9374b.0107141538.fb0f081@posting.google.com...
> The thread "divided Europe 2001" involves among other things an EFTA
> led by the UK and being one of to competing European organizations.
> So let´s take this one step further:
>
> How can we create a new "British Empire" in Europe, with the name of
> European Commonwealth? The POD is after 1945, and we´ll need at least
> Eire, the BeNeLux, West Germany and Italy in this group, even better
> if the Scandinavian countries join, with the option of Eastern
> European countries joining when the Eastern Bloc falls.
> Thie ECW has to be an economic union with a common policy dominated,
> but not dictated by the UK. The common institutions (Court,
> Parliament, Council of Ministers) are located in London, of course,
> and even if there are a lot of Monarchs in this Commonwealth there is
> talk of accepting HM the Queen of the UK&NI as ceremonial "Head of
> Europe", like the way the Prussian king was accepted as German Kaiser
> without deposing the Kings of Bavaria, Saxony etc.
> It would be very nice if the EuroCommonwealth countries had changed to
> driving on the left side and using the Imperial system of measurement
> instead of the metric one by 2001, hell, even the Common Currency, the
> Libra, schould be divided into 20 Solidi and 240 Pence. (That´s the
> way Charlemange ordered it, after all.)
>
> Any way to make this happen without ASBs?

Hmmm.....maybe. Britain will be the dominant power in the newly formed
European institutions if she becomes involved in them/creates them right at
the start. Say a POD of Churchill retiring from politics after his 1945
election defeat (which is possible enough if unlikely) and Eden leading the
Conservatives to victory in 1950.

Eden is a reasonable candidate for proposing or sponsoring moves towards
some form of European Community, and if Britain proposes the idea (or even
if a minor power does and then Britain strongly backs it) London is the
logical place in 1950 for such institutions to be set up.

British popular opinion is largely pro-Europe until the Thatcher years or
later. Assuming British involvement in this new ECW it will likely initially
be a free-trade area and possible military alliance although the latter may
be left to NATO.

Non-decimal currency and the Imperial system are both unlikely
(thank god) since Britain herself was moving away from both of them without
pushing from the EEC.

The real trick is creating an integrationist philosophy in Britain, although
if Britain is seen to be the major power in this ECW this will be easier
than in OTL. It is possible that the Conservatives who "created" or at least
were the midwives of this ECW would support further integration, and Labour
would be rabidly opposed to it.

In addition, if America withdraws from world politics and enters a phase of
neo-isolationism after Vietnam (which is, again, possible if unlikely) even
to a small degree, or slightly reduces troop commitments to Western Europe
during the Vietnam war, or we have a more agressive Soviet Union than in
OTL, then Europe could be driven closer together. Maybe after 56 and 68
events in Hungary and Czechoslovakia?

Stuart

> Jörg