Subject: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:08:40 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if Baby Boomers started turning out GEN Xrs around 1967 [68, 73, 75 for us]. GEN Xrs started attaining voting age around 1988, or so. That means that they have had well over ten years to become a viable and potent force in American politics and society. Other than some follow on work to Boomer accomplishments in the personal computer/INTERNET area, and the usual young adult contributions that every generation makes to sports, music, movies, and the entertainment field in general, GEN X has contributed very little to American Society. The challenge is to develop a POD that would make GEN Xrs a potent and vital force in American society and politics. For the challenge to be successfully met, the GEN Xrs must have an impact on society at least as great as the one their parents' generation had. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:18:16 -0500 (CDT) From: tamefeline12@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 This thread is obviously a TIT 4 TAT response to the BOOMER thread. But I'll pretend that it is legitimate. I really don't have a POD, but WI the post boomer generations had to face the same types of pressures and challenges that their parents and grandparents did? Things similar to a popular war, a 'police action' that nobody really understood, an unpopular war, social upheaval, economic recession, high inflation, constant and legitimate threats from equally powerful opposing nations, etc. Would this have forced them to be more 'active'? Anybody care to venture a WI that would provide a forge and anvil for the post boomer generations to have their mettle tested and molded on? Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: 5 Jun 2001 06:26:31 -0700 From: bguerrero@askallied.com (Bernard Guerrero) Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 grampajaymk1@webtv.net wrote in message news:<26945-3B1C4D38-307@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net>... > > For the challenge to be successfully met, the GEN Xrs must have an > impact on society at least as great as the one their parents' generation > had. Good Lord, why would I want to _impact_ anything? The entire world already seems to be organized to my advantage. Apart from a glaring need to off you codgers before you start drawing SSI, things appear to be just peachy. :^) Bernard "Change Bad!" Guerrero Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: 5 Jun 2001 12:16:43 -0700 From: maurer@itam.mx (Noel) Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 bguerrero@askallied.com (Bernard Guerrero) wrote in message news:... > grampajaymk1@webtv.net wrote in message news:<26945-3B1C4D38-307@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net>... > > > > For the challenge to be successfully met, the GEN Xrs must have an > > impact on society at least as great as the one their parents' generation > > had. > > > Good Lord, why would I want to _impact_ anything? The entire world > already seems to be organized to my advantage. Apart from a glaring > need to off you codgers before you start drawing SSI, things appear to > be just peachy. :^) > > > Bernard "Change Bad!" Guerrero ---Lord yes. We're swimming in cream. Noel Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: 05 Jun 2001 15:07:03 GMT From: coyu@aol.com (Coyu) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 Bernard Guerrero wrote: >> For the challenge to be successfully met, the GEN Xrs must have an >> impact on society at least as great as the one their parents' generation >> had. > > >Good Lord, why would I want to _impact_ anything? The entire world >already seems to be organized to my advantage. Apart from a glaring >need to off you codgers before you start drawing SSI, things appear to >be just peachy. :^) I dunno, that productivity boom just as we entered the workforce in large numbers gave a measure of our powers away. What do you expect from a generation that had to program our parents' VCRs for them? And gosh, the dot.com boom was fun! I really enjoyed that. And we left all those Boomer almost-retirees holding the check! Of course we haven't had any impact on popular culture at all. Which reminds me, I should call up the Onion folks and ask them how the scripts are coming along. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:25:43 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 coyu@aol.com (Coyu) did what most mediocre students do. First, he didn't RTMFQ. Second, he didn't ask for clarification of just what was wanted. As a result he just babbled. BTW Bob Hope and his generation have been doing 'programing VCR' jokes since the first BETA machines hit the consumer market. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:20:06 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 bguerrero@askallied.com (Bernard Guerrero)'s Response was honest, and just sarcastic enough to be witty. BZ Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:56:41 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 The impact of seeing Bernard Guerrero's intelligent response was just to much for me and I forgot to kill my sig. Thousand Apologies to the group Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:12:34 +0100 From: "Fabian" Organization: The Bureau of Lost Souls Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 I'll give you fair warning here. html is not a good idea on newsgroups. Colours are not nice either. Usenet is a text based medium, and only text should be used here. Try posting a midi file on this group again and you'll probably enter a few killfiles. -- -- Fabian For entertaining gas contamination I always liked concentrated sulphuric acid and elemental iodine. The result of mixing these is a mixture of gaseous iodine, hydrogen sulphide and sulphur dioxide, so it stinks, stains everything, is poisonous and corrosive. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:46:20 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 fabian@lost-souls.gov.xx (Fabian) Hiding behind a phony addy posted >I'll give you fair warning here. >html is not a good idea on >newsgroups. >Colours are not nice either. >Usenet is a text based medium, >and only text should be used here. >Try posting a midi file on this >group again and you'll probably >enter a few killfiles. I am perfectly aware that there are some USENET groups too unsophisticated to handle even basic HTML. I fully realize that when posting to one of these 'text only' groups that I must dumb everything down to that groups level. If you had bothered to read all my posts you would have seen that I said I fucked up and mea culpa as soon as I verified that I did. Is SHWI so petty and full of its self that its policy is to ignore admissions of error and sincere apologies and to instead castigate the already repentant offender? Your boorish action has cost you any right to complain about anybody violating USENET 'rules' ! Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:59:51 +0100 From: "Fabian" Organization: The Bureau of Lost Souls Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 wrote in message news:29089-3B1E504C-20@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net... > fabian@lost-souls.gov.xx (Fabian) > > Hiding behind a phony addy posted Whereas you're too embarrassed to give your real name. Or indeed, *any* name. Or is this shortfall an artifact of webtv(tm)? > >I'll give you fair warning here. > >html is not a good idea on > >newsgroups. > >Colours are not nice either. > >Usenet is a text based medium, > >and only text should be used here. > >Try posting a midi file on this > >group again and you'll probably > >enter a few killfiles. > > I am perfectly aware that there are some USENET groups too > unsophisticated to handle even basic HTML. The technology that most (but not all) people here have is sufficient to display html correctly. However, there are many good reasons for not posting in html, most of which are listed in long boring detail in the newsnet faqs. I invite you to read them sometime. > I fully realize that when posting to one of these 'text only' groups > that I must dumb everything down to that groups level. Information is good. Giving all the *information* you want to tell us is good. Removing the information would be dumbing it down, which is exactly what no one wants you to do. The html is data of interest only to machines, and provides no useful information. Unless, of course, you can explain how making yellow text on a black background with a charming midi file playing through the speakers somehow makes the post more informative? > If you had bothered to read all my posts you would have seen that I said > I fucked up and mea culpa as soon as I verified that I did. I saw an apology for not removing a sig. You obviously have a different definition of sig from the rest of us. Is English not your first language? I'll happily apologise for my tone of voice (but not the information) if you are working against a language barrier. > Is SHWI so petty and full of its self that its policy is to ignore > admissions of error and sincere apologies and to instead castigate the > already repentant offender? The apology that you posted did not bear any relation to the thing I was complaining about. You'll notice that I made no complaints regarding a 'sig', which is what your apology was about. btw, I do not speak for this, or any, newsgroup as a whole. I speak for the thorax, for the thorax has no throat :) > Your boorish action has cost you any right to complain about anybody > violating USENET 'rules' ! I shall pray for your soul. I'll enjoy feasting on it. More seriously, you have demonstrated perfectly why webtv(tm) users are, generally, looked down upon. I hope you will break the stereotype and prove me wrong. But I'll happily bet zlotys to Emirati dirhams on that one, seeing your response. If you truly feel offended beyond repair, you always have the ultimate option of announcing your departure, temporarily or permanently, and seeing how many people request your return. Properly convinced of my wrongness, I do apologise, as witnessed by the archives. But so far, I see no reason to do so. -- Fabian For entertaining gas contamination I always liked concentrated sulphuric acid and elemental iodine. The result of mixing these is a mixture of gaseous iodine, hydrogen sulphide and sulphur dioxide, so it stinks, stains everything, is poisonous and corrosive. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:33:24 -0400 From: "Walter R. Strapps" Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 grampajaymk1@webtv.net wrote: > > fabian@lost-souls.gov.xx (Fabian) > > Hiding behind a phony addy posted > > >I'll give you fair warning here. > >html is not a good idea on > >newsgroups. > >Colours are not nice either. > >Usenet is a text based medium, > >and only text should be used here. > >Try posting a midi file on this > >group again and you'll probably > >enter a few killfiles. > > I am perfectly aware that there are some USENET groups too > unsophisticated to handle even basic HTML. > > I fully realize that when posting to one of these 'text only' groups > that I must dumb everything down to that groups level. > > If you had bothered to read all my posts you would have seen that I said > I fucked up and mea culpa as soon as I verified that I did. > > Is SHWI so petty and full of its self that its policy is to ignore > admissions of error and sincere apologies and to instead castigate the > already repentant offender? > > Your boorish action has cost you any right to complain about anybody > violating USENET 'rules' ! Well then, your boorish behaviour, including your attacks on the lack of sophistication of this group, talking about 'dumbing down' for the posters to this group and cursing is a good way to respond to what you view as boorish behaviour? Way to take the high ground and make a point. SHWI might not be petty, but you certainly are. Cheers, Waler R. Strapps Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:56:50 -0700 From: rosignol Organization: very little Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 In article <29089-3B1E504C-20@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, grampajaymk1@webtv.net wrote: [zap] > I am perfectly aware that there are some USENET groups too > unsophisticated to handle even basic HTML. It is not a matter of sophistication, it is a matter of courtesy and consideration of the other users, many of whom use newsreaders that do not support html, and some of which are on metered connections. Be inconsiderate if you wish, but don't be surprised whem people treat you accordingly. [zap] Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:56:55 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 rosignol@nwlink.com (rosignol) contributed >many of whom use newsreaders >that do not support html, and >some of which are on metered >connections. Very interesting. Most LAMETVrs are of the opinion that LAMETV has the poorest service around. Could you please post a list of those NEWREADERS and ISPs that do not support HTML and offer something other than flat rate 24/365 service? BTW A large percentage [myself included] of LAMETVs 1.2 million subscribers are just hanging around waiting to see what kind of settlement comes out of the LAMETV false advertising suits that are now grinding through the Federal Courts. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:18:45 -0400 From: "Walter R. Strapps" Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 grampajaymk1@webtv.net wrote: > > rosignol@nwlink.com (rosignol) > contributed > > > >many of whom use newsreaders > >that do not support html, and > >some of which are on metered >connections. > > Very interesting. > > Most LAMETVrs are of the opinion that LAMETV has the poorest service > around. > > Could you please post a list of those NEWREADERS and ISPs that do not > support HTML and offer something other than flat rate 24/365 service? Here's a hint, Usenet is an international thing.... Cheers, Walter R. Strapps > > BTW > A large percentage [myself included] of LAMETVs 1.2 million subscribers > are just hanging around waiting to see what kind of settlement comes out > of the LAMETV false advertising suits that are now grinding through the > Federal Courts. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:43:02 -0700 From: rosignol Organization: very little Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 , 2 In article <183-3B1EA727-53@storefull-243.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, grampajaymk1@webtv.net wrote: > rosignol@nwlink.com (rosignol) > contributed > > > >many of whom use newsreaders > >that do not support html, and > >some of which are on metered >connections. > > Very interesting. > > Most LAMETVrs are of the opinion that LAMETV has the poorest service > around. ...yet they continue to use it. > Could you please post a list of those NEWREADERS and ISPs that do not > support HTML and offer something other than flat rate 24/365 service? Newsreaders: easier to list ones that do support html, which are usually combination web browser/newsreaders such as Netscape and Internet Explorer. I have yet to see a program that is just a newsreader that supports html (that doesn't mean there aren't any, of course). ISPs: pretty much all of the ones that aren't based in the US. In Britain, for example, _all_ telephone calls are metered, even local ones. There are good reasons for most of the conventions and etiquette on Usenet. [zap] Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:32:39 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 Very interesting about non-US ISPs and NEWSREADERS, thanx for the info. I've only used public phones in Britain, didn't know that all calls were metered, thanx for that info too. As I stated before, an awful lot of LAMETVrs are just hanging around to see how the LAMETV False Advertising trial turns out. LAMETV didn't even attempt to fight the FTC's false advertising charges. Rumor has it that a puter accessory consisting of a wireless keyboard and a line doubler that would give you monitor quality video on your TV is being tested. IOW, use your puter and TV to surf the web from your recliner. The same thing Capt. Kirk, et al, said LAMETV would do. If that system works, within a year of it hitting the market, USENET afficionados won't have to worry about LAMETVrs at all. LAMETV will have lost so many subscribers even MICROSOFT won't want to pour money down that rathole to keep it running. Subject: Re: WI Challenge--Making the Gen Xrs a Driving Force in US Society Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:39:37 -0500 (CDT) From: grampajaymk1@webtv.net Organization: WebTV Subscriber Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if References: 1 Since this is a WI group WI instead of 'warning' me, Fabian had said "OK, we all mistakes, just don't do it again" instead of ignoring my apology and warning me about using HTML in USENET. Would we have people upset because I am upset that my apology to the group was ignored ? Just for the record: According to the date stamps I see: I made that original HTML containing post at 11:20 AM 5 Jun 01. I apologized for it at 11:56 AM 5 Jun 01. I was dinged for the original post at 12:12 AM + 6 CDT 6 Jun 01. Plenty of time for the apology to have appeared. Or else, LAMETV is a whole lot better at posting messages than other NEWREADERS/ISPs. A concept that I find extremely difficult to believe. I have been posting to USENET enough years to realize that there are things that are effortless to LAMETVers, but a major hassle for other more advanced ISPs and NEWSREADERS. I realize that I have to kill my sig when posting to non-alt.discuss groups and again APOLOGIZE FOR FORGETTING TO DO IT THAT ONE TIME. Check my other posts and see how often I use HTML. If my getting upset for being "warned" after I apologized, and having my apology ignored, offends some of the people in here, OH WELL..... However, in 21st century society, after someone apologizes for a mistake, it is socially and intellectually unacceptable to ignore the apology and attack the person. All that attacking after an apology does is make the original offender morally correct. If you are still upset after somebody apologizes, there are numerous ways to accept the apology, but still convey that fact without further attacks. Those kinds of exchanges often lead to a better understanding on both sides. If some posters here feel that ignoring apologies is accepted behavior in the real world, you are in for some very rude surprises when you get there. BTW The use of midis in sigs has been discussed at length on other boards and groups. The general consensus was is that it is bad because it lets the PERSON IN CHARGE know that you are surfing, instead of doing what you are supposed to be doing. Now all that having been said, the responses on other boards would be on the nature of "Yup, you are right, lets all forget the whole thing and don't use HTML again."