Subject: 
            Inverted Countries: Ireland and Scotland
       Date: 
            2 Aug 2001 11:00:36 -0700
       From: 
            iluvpernod@hotmail.com (IrishRed)
Organization: 
            http://groups.google.com/
 Newsgroups: 
            soc.history.what-if


The Spain/Yugoslavia inversion thread got this one whizzing round my
head.

Can we come up with a POD which would produce an inverted Ireland and
Scotland - a world in which Ireland is a peaceful part of the UK, with
a recently created devolved parliament, and Scotland is partitioned,
the majority being an independant republic, while a smaller section,
say the south-east, is still part of the UK, but has been the scene of
conflicts between Scottish Republicans and Unionists.

Subject: 
            Re: Inverted Countries: Ireland and Scotland
       Date: 
            02 Aug 2001 20:51:46 GMT
       From: 
            sc0t18nd@aol.compere (Ian MacAninch)
Organization: 
            AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk
 Newsgroups: 
            soc.history.what-if
 References: 
            1


IrishRed wrote:

>The Spain/Yugoslavia inversion thread got this one whizzing round my
>head.
>
>Can we come up with a POD which would produce an inverted Ireland and
>Scotland - a world in which Ireland is a peaceful part of the UK, with
>a recently created devolved parliament, and Scotland is partitioned,
>the majority being an independent republic, while a smaller section,
>say the south-east, is still part of the UK, but has been the scene of
>conflicts between Scottish Republicans and Unionists.

I was thinking of having James VII and II remain in power may do it - i.e. a
rapprochement between Anglicanism/Episcopalianism (as a kind of High
Anglo-Catholicism) and Catholicism leading to Presbyterianism and other similar
religions being squeezed out. That could be enough to keep Catholic Ireland
loyal and really have the Scots as a troublesome bunch for centuries. A reason
why he passes an Act of Union - the main reason for the two Acts in OTL. 

However there would be two problems with that. There are still a large number
of Scots Presbyterians milling about the north of Ireland leaving that problem
to deal with - perhaps their presence can be the reason for an Irish
Parliamentary Union. Secondly the areas of Scotland that were Catholic or
Episcopalian at this period were largely in the North East and Western
Highlands of Scotland. So if there's partition it would end up as like
Kaliningrad.

However if the Clan Chiefs are going to act the way they did OTL - i.e. land
clearances - then the Highlanders are going to be unhappy enough to become
Presbyterians if the unestablished Kirk has the resources to proselytise as
they did OTL. The North East? Bit more tricky but today there a mix of god
knows how many churches so maybe it can be done there.

Perhaps because Edinburgh will be the administrative capital and preference
will be given to RC's and Episcopalians in civil service jobs then that helps
build up the south east - along with some of the industry in the east coast
preferring Irish Catholic employees. The west central belt also goes through
industrialisation except in this case the cheap Labour is majority Ulster/Irish
Presbyterian - they effectively leave Ulster as jobs there are going to
Anglicans and Catholics who would have been passed over our timeline. Thus
Ulster is not the troublesome province it is in OTL.

Scottish Republicanism grows out of the example of their failed hero - the
Stadtholder of the Dutch Republic, William of Orange.